"What's the point of writing if no one reads it?"

[sarillia]

...and I will also be rambling about the idea that everyone should be constantly working to improve

I only started writing less than seven years ago. A few times before that, I had started to write something but it never got past two handwritten pages and I never made a serious attempt at it. Then when I was 16, for reasons I still don't understand, I signed up for National Novel Writing Month. I loved it and I've done it every year since and I've also participated in a lot of the unofficial spin-offs.

So maybe I have a different approach to writing than most people because it was nothing but entertainment from Day One. I had no grand plans to be published or ideas about making a career as a writer. I have always been a very anxious person so from the start I told myself that I would not be showing my writing to other people. It was just for fun. Just for me. And I kept that up for a long time.

But people could not let me do so in peace. So many people kept asking me that question that I typed up there in the post title. They kept telling me how sad it was that these stories would sit on my computer forever only to be read by me.

What makes writing different from other pastimes? Obviously one big thing is that it produces something, but why should that come with an obligation to share that product with the world.

Speaking of obligations, that's another thing that I always heard. "If you don't show anyone your writing then you are never going to improve." Fair enough. But who said I wanted to improve? Why should that be a given? Why couldn't it just be something I did for fun? I realize that "having fun" and "trying to improve" are not incompatible but that doesn't mean they can't be separated.

I've come across this idea a lot that if you write or do anything creative then you should be trying to become great at it. Even in fandom, which has lately been derided as a place where people want to hear nothing but positive comments (which is apparently just awful), there are people acting like writers are breaking some kind of code if they don't ask for constructive criticism.

Things have changed for me. I've decided that I would like to try out the whole sharing and getting criticism thing. But I don't think that's the only valid way to write. There are hobbyists who care about nothing but how much fun they're having--I used to be one of them and it brought me a lot of joy--and I don't see why they should be looked down on so much.

Maybe someone who disagrees with me can make a persuasive argument. I honestly don't understand this, and I have a feeling that my attitude is just as incomprehensible to some other people.

Comments

[agilebrit]

I think it's entirely up to you what you want to get out of it, and not anyone else's business, frankly. If you get joy from the simple act of creation, you are under no obligation to show it to anyone, nor to try to "improve," whatever that means in this context. If getting the stories out of your head and onto a screen suffices for you, then that's your deal. Anyone who says different is sticking their nose in where it doesn't belong.

And nothing says it's set in stone either. If you change your mind, no one should say "boo."

But I'm a big believer in free choice.

[sarillia]

This is my take too. But I've run into a whole lot of people who disagree.

[lunabee34]

I agree with agiblebrit. I think that whatever you want to do with or get out of your writing is 100% your choice and right for you.

That being said, I don't understand the notion of writing just for yourself unless you are using writing as a kind of therapy, and I can see wanting to keep that private. I think writing is a wonderful tool for helping us to articulate our thoughts and work through our motivations, and that sort of writing I do keep to myself.

But for me, a story requires an audience. Storytelling is one of the fundamentally human things we do. It's how we make sense of the world around us and create meaning from our lives. And you can tell a story to yourself, sure. But that's the kind of writing that's a diary even if you're couching whatever it is you're saying in fictional terms. To me, writing is communication with someone else.

IDK

Again, although it's not a feeling I share, I don't think anyone is *wrong* for feeling the way you do.

[sarillia]

I don't think a story requires an audience. A novel that has never been read by anyone who wasn't involved in creating it is still a novel. Unless said people are counted as the audience in that case.

I write because it's fun. It's like reading a book. I look forward to seeing what's going to happen next. It's different since I have control over it but there are still surprises. It's sheer entertainment. Whenever I'm sad that a book that sounds interesting doesn't exist, I get to write it and experience that story.

I just don't see why an audience is a defining characteristic of a story.

I find this line particularly interesting:

But that's the kind of writing that's a diary even if you're couching whatever it is you're saying in fictional terms.

I have what I call my "fiction diary". I have always liked the idea of keeping a diary but I was never very good at it, so what I do instead is each day I write a short piece inspired by whatever stands out about my day.

It feels very different from my novels.

I'm also just having trouble understanding this idea in general. So the novels I wrote before are actually more like diaries because I had no plans to show them to anyone else? But if I revise them and show them to people, that would transform them into legit stories?

[inkdust]

I think for story and audience, that's just the way it is. Storytelling - it has to be told to someone. But I also think that a story's creator can count as an audience. If you read over your own work to enjoy the story, you are an audience. Most storytellers, I think, just also feel the desire to tell their stories to others as well. I do write little bits that I only enjoy privately, but most of what I've written I have shared with at least one close friend, because I wanted to try to share the excitement I felt about it.

I wouldn't call a novel a diary just because you didn't intend to share it, but I can see how many people would see keeping novels private as counter-intuitive, simply because writing is generally seen as communication. Storytelling, emphasis on telling. That's just how many people see it.

[sarillia]

I just seem to have a fundamentally different view of the characteristics that define these labels here. A novel is a novel and a diary is a diary no matter how many people read or are intended to read each one. I don't see audience as a defining criterion. That just doesn't make sense to me.

I'm sure some people use fiction writing for communication but that attitude is just completely foreign to me.

...I need to stop using the word "just" so much.

I also need to think about this more. I'm having a lot of trouble articulating my thoughts.

[inkdust]

I abuse the word "just" to an unholy degree.

I agree that a novel is a novel and a diary is a diary. I think most people would agree with you on that. Most people would just also think that a novel's purpose is generally to be shared, at least eventually. If you want to give it some more thought, I find the subject interesting.

[sarillia]

I guess I just don't see a novel as something that has any one inherent purpose. Some are meant to be shared and some are not. I don't see it as something intrinsic but as something that is influenced by the creator. If I say I'm not trying to communicate but that I'm just mucking about with some characters for fun, then on what grounds can anyone argue with me?

[inkdust]

They can't - I think you're absolutely in the right. What it ends up being about isn't definition and purpose but expectation and familiarity.

[sarillia]

I guess I can concede that there is an expectation that storytelling is a form of communication. It just bugs me to have people talking like that's universal to all writers.

[inkdust]

I get that. Generalizations really bother me too. I don't notice them as much about writers because I think I fit a lot of the stereotypes, but there are all kinds of writers out there. It's a shame people want to make everything fit into their boxes.

[lunabee34]

OMG, I am sorry I have not answered this is in a timely fashion. And I still am not going to LOL. This has been a week of sick babies and projectile vomiting. *sigh* I will get back to you soon. Sorry. :(

[lunabee34]

Aha!

Looks like the evening is opening up. The baby did not go kicking and screaming into the time change. Will wonders never cease?

First of all, I would never use a loaded term like legitimate or illegitimate to describe any kind of writing. If your writing is doing what you want it to do, then I think that's all that matters. Just because I don't get something or do something differently than someone else does not at all mean I think that person's POV isn't valid or that they're doing it wrong. :)

I also feel a wee bit like a Supreme Court Justice trying to define pornography here. LOL I feel really strongly about my position, but it's also one that I've never examined or tried to articulate in any coherent way. So I appreciate you making me think about what I feel about this issue and why.

I have read this comment thread, and I think inkdust is saying what I mean much better than I did. I just can't imagine writing a story or a novel that I didn't intend to share with someone. Maybe I wouldn't intend to publish it, but I can't imagine writing a story or a novel that only I read.

[sarillia]

I just can't imagine writing a story or a novel that I didn't intend to share with someone. Maybe I wouldn't intend to publish it, but I can't imagine writing a story or a novel that only I read.

See, I knew there were people like that but I didn't realize that they would find my old position of never wanting anyone to so much as glance at my stories so incomprehensible.

I can't say I understand your position fully since that's just not the way my mind works but I accept that this is a very common viewpoint.

[lunabee34]

*hugs*

And thank goodness we don't all think the same way. That would be boring as hell. :)

[splinteredstar]

"What's the point of writing?" It's /fun/, now bugger off.

I mean. I think everyone should strive for self improvement as a matter of course. And people should accept honest responses to their work. And there's something about "I only want praise!" that rubs of ego-stroking.

I think part of it is the view of art as communication, of writing in particular as a way of speaking to people. Writing seems like you're trying to /say/ something, so why say it no one?

But yeah. There's nothing wrong with mucking around for fun. There are a lot of stories I have written in my head or written down that will never be shared with anyone. Story-spinning is reflex for me, and a relaxation, and a meditation. What I share and what I don't share is my own business.

[sarillia]

And there's something about "I only want praise!" that rubs of ego-stroking.

Honestly, I don't really see what's so wrong with wanting some ego-stroking. It kind of reminds me of insults like "attention whore". They want attention?! That's terrible!!

I'm going to admit something that's going to make some people dislike me on principle: I like to show off.

I have always been shy about sharing my writing but that hasn't been true of all my hobbies. I also like to knit and crochet and sometimes I show my work to people just so they can praise it. I especially like showing it to people don't knit and crochet themselves because they're less likely to notice the mistakes. The average person finds writing less esoteric than knitting and has a better frame of reference for judging its quality so they're less likely to go "I could never do that" and more likely to go "this is how I would change it".

I'm extremely self-critical. I have some very kind people like friends whose judgement I trust and therapists tell me that I'm way too hard on myself. So, with my knitting and crocheting, it's nice to let go of that and just bask in the "You made that?? omg that's amazing! It's so pretty!"

What if writing is that for someone else?

I firmly believe that criticism is only truly constructive when it's solicited. If the person is not going to listen to it then it's just not useful and when the critic knows that then it reveals itself to be for the sake of the critic rather than the creator. Which is fine. I enjoy critiquing things for my own sake and sometimes for the sake of other readers or watchers or whatever (I didn't include them in my prior statement because I'm mostly talking about amateur writing on the internet where there's no atmosphere of professionalism and what are called reviews are generally assumed to be for the creator rather than other readers), but I wouldn't provide a critique of someone's writing to them if they didn't want it. I don't think the default should be "wants criticism". I don't think that should be assumed. There are too many fragile people who are hurt by this attitude. And I don't mean "fragile" in a pejorative sense. I count myself as fragile in many ways.

But a lot of the people who disagree with me on this act so insulting toward people who don't want criticism that I feel like sticking a disclaimer between every paragraph reminding everyone that I appreciate criticism and that I am trying to work on my writing to make it better just so I can shield myself from vitriol. I know it's not necessary because everyone I've talked to here has been wonderful but I'm a little gunshy about this.

I want to apologize for responding to a lot of things you never said in your comment. In a lot of ways I'm still continuing my thoughts from the main post because you've reminded me of other arguments that I disagree with even though you didn't actually use them yourself. I just want to reassure you that I read your comment and I'm not accusing you of saying anything that you didn't. I have a bad habit of doing stuff like this and people have understandably gotten the wrong idea in the past.

Now I'm going to press "Post Comment" and hope I don't sound too awful.

[inkdust]

You don't sound awful. I'm one of the people who does actually use my writing to show off - not by letting people read it, but there's something hugely egotistically gratifying about someone asking what I do and getting to say "I'm writing a novel." Because the reaction is /always/ impressed. And I don't feel bad about saying it because I'm not exaggerating at all.

For actual reading of my writing, I have one friend I have read my rough drafts, for the sole purpose of getting to hear someone say "omg that's amazing!" Sometimes I have questions about whether something works well, and I always want her to let me know if she sees a real problem, but it's pretty much just for that ego boost. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. It encourages me to keep going.

I'm also terrible at taking criticism, and I know I'm going to need to get a lot better at it, but I also don't think there's anything wrong with that, or with doing certain activities and not wanting constructive criticism about them. Especially for things that are just hobbies, sometimes improving through outside feedback isn't the point. I don't think you're wrong.

[splinteredstar]

I understand. Part of it is for me, personally, I don't trust straight compliments. Maybe it's a self-esteem thing, but anyone who doesn't mix critical commentary into the praise just reads as false to me. As polite nonsense because they don't want to say how awful it is to my face. Does that make sense? I fully admit that's a quirk of my own neurological mix, though.

Hmmmm. I think part of it is inherent in our culture - the idea that it is our purpose as human beings to produce things that are of use to others. We are also told to pursue excellence. There is an entire genre of stories (both fiction and cultural stereotypes) based around "lazy layabout who is content with mediocrity", and they always end with them learning to Work Hard so they can have Worth in Society.

So the idea that people are okay with not being perfect, and with having "subpar" creations is kind of... unnatural sometimes.

(I'm a sociology minor. Sometimes it shows.)

And I understand, but thank you for spelling it out. I miss social cues in person, and online it can be even worse.

[ayumidah]

I get this from my mother. She has yet to read anything I've written. She thinks because I don't let her read my writing, I've not let anyone read it. Which isn't true, I let a couple close friends read my original works and my fan fiction is out there for anyone who wants to give it a go.

The problem I have with letting Mom read is she has a number of books laying around the house that she only gets so far in, and never returns to. Or she'll say "I try to read, but I fall asleep". And an even bigger part of me fears that she'll judge me for the things I do write, or nitpick it like she does so many other things.

But even if I didn't want her, my friends or anyone else to read any of them, and just wanted to keep it to myself, that'd be my prerogative and I do have a couple binders full of stories that will probably never see the light of day, because I'd rather they stay for my eyes only.

[sarillia]

I'm sorry about your mom. I definitely understand your fear.

You know, I was thinking recently about the idea of being published and something I hadn't thought of before stuck out to me. I can handle the idea of random people tearing my work to shreds if they react badly to it, but then I realized that my mom would want to read it too and that made me freeze up. Luckily she's always been very supportive so mostly my reaction after I got over the sudden shock of that thought was that I probably shouldn't write sex scenes in anything for public consumption because that would be incredibly awkward to know she was reading.

[ayumidah]

Haha, yes that is another thing-- the awkwardness of that! I think if I did ever get published, I'd do it under a pseudonym so none of my family would know it was me and try to keep it under wraps.

[caecilia]

Nah, I totally agree with you. I've always wanted to be a professional. I decided that was my destiny when I was seven and, minus a few episodes of low self-confidence, I've been working toward that. But of course writing can be a hobby to some people. I think everyone needs some creative outlet. It's good for the soul. If someone's passion is piano playing and that's what they make their career out of, but they also write for a half an hour every day and are entertained by that and don't feel the need to show it to anyone, who cares? I also write for fun sometimes. And my ao3 is full of crackfic that I mostly wrote at 3 am over instant message for mine and my friends' entertainment.

There is no way to do it wrong and enjoying yourself is the most important thing, even when you're doing it for work.